Melting the Iceberg: Evolving and Expanding the work of Virginia Satir (A dialogue with Tim Sitt)

This is an interview between Tim Sitt and Linda Lucas, Program Director at the Satir Institute of the Pacific (SIP), about Tim’s work and experience with Virginia Satir’s work. We cover a variety of topics such as the impact of Virginia’s work and impact, Congruence, Melting the iceberg, and the metaphor of the tree. This conversation highlights Tim Sitt’s work and an upcoming workshop titled “Melting the Iceberg.” which you can learn more about through the link below:

https://satirpacific.org/event/melting-the-iceberg-expanding-and-evolving-the-satir-model-through-self-connection/

Satir Institute of the Pacific Facebook https://www.facebook.com/satirinstituteofthepacific

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/satirinstitute/

The Satir Institute also offers free monthly community support meetings: https://satirpacific.org/event/sip-free-community-of-support-meetings/

0-10:00: Self-Connection Meditation 11:00 attempting to reconcile the level of hierarchy and seed. “Our differences are opportunities for growth.” Tim and Linda experienced disagreement and had the opportunity to practice what we had mutually learned about Virginia Satir’s work to help us reconcile those differences.

17:07 How did Virginia Satir’s work impact your life?

21:15 What does Virginia’s work have to offer people today?

23:55 we need new concepts to point to phenomenon and updating language to better point to the aliveness of Virginia’s work.

26:00 a discussion about congruence. Learning to value your nos.

28:25 The metaphor of the tree.

30:15 Virginia writings on Congruence. The universality of human beings which guarantee similarity and differences

. 34:00 - 38:20 til What Tim means by ‘melting the iceberg?”

43:00 a stronger theoretical frame will help people understand Virginia work and to take risks towards growth

45:23 Virginia’s discussion of the pot highlights a time where she defines self-esteem as the content of our consciousness. It is important to remember that the Self is more the space of the container rather than any specific content held within which can change or transform.

46:47 What can communities to express congruence?

48:50 the importance of creating healthy organizations.

Melting the Iceberg Workshop by Tim Sitt Hosted by the Satir Institute of the Pacfiic https://satirpacific.org/event/melting-the-iceberg-expanding-and-evolving-the-satir-model-through-self-connection/

The Self-Connection Podcast S2 E2 In the Here and Now with Victor Yalom

Victor Yalom, PhD, is the Founder, Director of Content and Resident Cartoonist of Psychotherapy.net. He maintained a full-time practice psychology practice in San Francisco for over 25 years, and currently continues to see a small handful of clients, as well as leading psychotherapy and consultation groups. He has conducted workshops in existential-humanistic and group therapy in the US, Mexico, and China. He has produced over 100 training videos in the field of psychotherapy and continues to be inspired the many master therapists he has been privileged to work with, including existential-humanistic psychologist James Bugental, and his father Irvin Yalom. In his spare time he paints, creates metal sculptures, and tries to improve his table tennis game. More information on Victor and his artwork is at sfpsychologist.com.

Please visit www.psychotherapy.net to view the wonderful resources they have there which include over 300 videos of the prominent psychotherapist of the past and present. Think Netflix but for psychotherapist.

You can save $100 dollars off an annual memberships at psychotherapy.net with the discount code : connection100

Rather than having a set agenda for the podcast, Victor offered to have an open ended conversation with me and to explore and learn together, which was very exciting for me. Since the podcast is about connection it was fitting for us to explore topics related to psychotherapy as the content that served as the context for learning about and with each other. 

I experienced Victor as very generous , earnest and supportive conversational partner. There were some touching moments particularly when he reflected on the gifts he received from his mentor, James Bugental. Upon hearing the podcast during editing, I found myself appreciating the mutual energy of gratitude we both had for our respective mentors. Victor helped model some of the concepts we discussed by going into his experience and sharing vulnerably about himself.

  We start the discussion with me sharing my here and now experience of feeling nervous to speak with him, which is very unusual. I decide to share this straight away and Victor compassionately invites me to explore my experience together. 

2:00 Victor shares the common expectation that a therapist will take away or reduce the experience they are having. Instead he points out that we can be with our experience and learn from it. 

3:00 Tim express gratitude for Victor’s work in making Virginia Satir’s work available on video and subsequent work with other master therapists. 

8:10 Victor reflects that he notices so much in what he’s hearing and noticing with what Tim’s shared that in therapeutic context would be available. He feels that psychotherapy can be a creative artful process.

10:30 Tim poses the question of what aspects of therapeutic skills are relevant for day to day intimate and connective conversations to Victor. 

12:27 Victor reflects that he often asks clients to reflect on what’s happening for them at the head level and heart level. He suggests slowing down and tuning into ourselves and the other person. Attending to the words , and facial expressions of the other person as well as one’s own body and feelings. 

18:40 We talk about what ‘here and now’ means in context of group and individual therapy. Victor shares that he is feeling engaged, and in flow and aware of some vulnerability and a desire to share something of use to the audience. 

21:45 Tim asks about Victor’s connection to James Bugental who was a Humanistic existential psychologist. Victor shares about his meeting and experiences of training with James. 

 . 27:30 Victor reflects on his learnings with James Bugental. He demonstrates and differentiates some of the ideas and techniques from James Bugental’s work such as searching that make it different from normal day to day conversations.

32:20  One of the most powerful words he would say was , “And...”  rather than letting the conversation be a ping pong match.  It reinforces and introduces the idea that there’s always more. This is one of things James used to say, “There’s always more.” Each person is an arena of endless exploration.

34:00 Victor experiential explores his emotions that come up upon his reflects on his relationships with James Bugental. 

37:50  Tim shares a quote from James Bugental 

“ But early on l wanted to change her implicit sense of her task from telling me about herself to expressing herself. That's such an important difference. Then she makes herself an object of description. We're not dealing with a living person. lnformation about her. l don't like to get a lot of information about a client in advance. l want to know are they're reasonably able to maintain, and reality testing is all right, that sort of thing. But too much information will just cloud the screen for me. 

 l need to be as innocent, in a certain way, as l can be for each person. l need to be as innocent, in a certain way, as l can be for each person. To discover this unique person. And that sounds very nice and humanistic, and it is. But the real value is, that way l get to know the living

person, not about a person who has that name.”

39:00 Victor reflects on the therapist role in helping the client to not objectify themselves but to enter more deeply in their experience and to be present (“search process”) 

42:00 James Bugental also talked about ‘resistance’ which is resistance to life. These are coping patterns created for survival, defense mechanisms.  They work for us but also limit us. 

Examples, intellectualizing, or mocking oneself, or hiding emotions. 

Helping clients become more flexible with their coping patterns.

47:00 “inclusion not amputation” another James Bugental quote . He also talked about the co-occuring counter balancing energies of support and encouragement or the ‘backstop’ that urges them forward. 

50: 30  Tim reads a quote by Rollo May and asks for Victors reflections. 

“....and the problem is that psychotherapy becomes more and more a system of gimmicks. People have special ways of doing their own therapy. They learn which particular buttons to push. They're taught various techniques by which they can, so that they can at least cure this isolated symptom or that. And that wasn't the purpose at all, of Freud and Jung and the rest of the really great men who began our field. Their purpose was to make the unconscious conscious. And that's a great--there's a great deal of difference between them.

This was what Freud was setting out to do. It's what Jung is trying to do. It's what Adler and Rank did. These people never talked about these gimmicks. It just didn't interest them. What did interest them was making a new person. You see, the new possibilities come up. Then you have--then you change the person. Otherwise, you change only the way he behaves, only the way he approaches this or that incidental problem. The problem's going to change in six months when he'll be back again for some more so-called therapy.” -Rollo May

52:00 Victor reflects on some of the context surrounding more technique based therapies and the importance of therapist reflecting on their use of self, to sit with difficult emotions, not necessarily always needing to ‘do’ something to the client.  The ability to sit with clients and to be with their emotions. 

58:32 Victor shares about his orientation and perspective towards psychotherapy.

1:03:30 We explore the words. “Self-Connection”

The "Pursuit" of Happiness

The traps of happiness is trying to buy it. Thinking of happiness as a particular psychological state. When we become attached to a particular experience then we can lose sight of our Self. When we become overly attached to material 'things' we forget our own living humanity and perhaps the humanity of others.

Isn’t happiness doing a good job?

Falling in love?

Buying a new pair shoes?

People identify themselves and confuse their worth in the emotional currency acquired through these experiences. They do not realize that projecting themselves in a role, possession or another person, they have abandoned themselves and the authentic pathway of Self-Connection, Self-Realization and Self-Actualization.

People come to the false conclusion: “I do X and I feel good. If I was really good and worthy I would feel good all the time.” This has become the epitome of western capitalistic “pursuit'“ of happiness.

I explore two metaphors to simultaneously hold a space for happiness in the temporary sense which occurs at the level of ego and roles and a related dimension of being, our roots, where the existential connection to Self allows for a grounding in our humanity that does not depend on external rewards to be valuable or worthy.

When we can return to our Self, the ground of Being, we let go of attachment to things and material happiness. We reclaim our projected energy and we enter into a state of silence where we are not bought into a delusion of happiness.

A simple reflection on the topic of happiness might be the way you language it.

Do you think about “What makes you happy?” or Who makes you happy?

Do you see yourself as the agent for the creation of happiness? Do you see yourself as capable of creating happiness before an event occurs or possession acquired? Is it possible to nurture positive mind states? The reflection of what and who makes us happy comes down to one’s sense of agency or locus of control. Is it internal or external? What is the relationship between what occurs and what emotional states we create?

The Self-Connection Podcast: S2 E1 With John Banmen and Sharon Loeschen :Creating Context

In this podcast interview, I have the pleasure of speaking with both Sharon Loeschen and John Banmen. Two prominent leaders and teachers of the Satir Model.   Today we explore the topic of context.

Sharon has over 4 decades  of experience as a psychotherapist, teacher, and trainer. She is past president of the Virgiania Satir global net work and uses the Satir Growth Model to facilitate learning and healing. She has developed the Satir Coaching and Mentoring Certification program which is being well received around the world.   You can learn more about her by  visiting Satirglobal.org 

She has authored several books: 

Enriching Your Relationship with Yourself and Others: https://satirglobal.org/product/enriching-your-relationship-with-yourself-and-others/

Choosing Your Life Story: Inspirational Stories of Transformations from the Streets of South Central Los Angeles: https://satirglobal.org/product/choosing-your-life-story

John Banmen is one of the foremost experts and teachers of the Satir model. He co-authored the book The Satir Model: Family therapy and beyond and has written, edited many many other books related to Virginia Satir’s work. He was an instructor, associate and Adjunct professor at the university of British Columbia for 21 years. As well as an honorary associate professor at the University of Hong Kong (2000-2004).  He has created training programs in dozens of countries in Asia, Europe South and North America. He provides supervision for counselors, psychotherapist and family therapist.  

I have the honor and privilege of being able to call both of these wonderful people, friends and mentors.

For background, Virginia Satir was one of the founding figures in family therapy. She was born in 1916 and died in 1988.  Her model of therapy has had a major impact on the field of psychotherapy and other fields to this day. Her way of working emphasizes a conscious awareness of how we use ourselves in therapy, the incorporation of the body in the process of therapy, she would have people standing up sculpting their family dynamic with stances, she could emphasis the need for people to orient their bodies, eyes and even touch while communicating, she created dynamic and effective processes for transformational change such as parts party which is similar to internal family systems and family reconstruction which we will talk a bit about in the conversation. Virginia Satir is a giant int he field of therapy , family therapy, couples therapy.  Learning about her work has formed the foundation of how I approach life as human being and in all my professional roles as a therapist, writer.

If you are interested in learning more , I recommend visiting satirglobal.org and reading some other books like :The New Peoplemaking, Making Contact, Conjoint Family Therapy

The Self-Connection Podcast: S1 E 26 With John Banmen: Cosmic Wholeness: Journey beyond time and ego

John and I explore the word ‘wholeness’ as it relates to Virginia Satir’s work and David Bohm’s, a physicist and philosopher.  We discuss the role of connecting to ‘cosmic wholeness’ as part of evolving consciousness. I found our discussion to be a warm playful exploration of wholeness, consciousness, and time. I appreciate John’s willingness, humility and generosity to share a space across generations and to explore this topic together.

John and I make reference to the excellent documentary: Infinite Potential; The Life and Ideas of David Bohm. You can find it here on YouTube:  https://youtu.be/XDpurdHKpb8

Tim introduces the topic of exploration and the intention for the dialogue to be like a meditation; an opportunity to experience the topics we will be discussing.

3:00 John Banmen begins by reflecting on Virginia’s use of the word ‘wholeness’. He describes feeling that there is more to what she meant with wholeness.  David Bohm talks about a larger, universal wholeness; being a part of the universe.  

4:30 Wholeness what does it mean? On one level, wholeness is the appreciation of worth in each person.  This may have been an initial first step of valuing all people regardless of age, sex or race as equal in human value. 

John proposes that we may be all connected to a universal energy.  

What does it mean to be whole? What does it mean to have space?

Space is important to pay attention to not just the things that fill in the space.

What is between ? In the silence? Between the notes?

11:00 Physics is concerned with viewing the world either as particles or waves.  Tim draws a comparison to forms of consciousness being particle-like such as thoughts, feelings, perceptions, expectations and the aspect of consciousness which is more fluid and formless.

13:00 Virginia Satir emphasized “and...” not either ...or.... 

John makes the point that we need to differentiate first before we can connect and integrate.

John feels that we may fixate too much on individuality or individuation and need to keep moving towards a greater integration to a larger whole. 

17:00 Tim asks “Why is important to be in touch with wholeness that is universal?” 

John Banmen feels it is a natural process to discovery that we are more than what we think we are.

Divisions lead to conflict. The reality of wholeness may help us reduce our conflicts and move towards peace.

20:00 Tim asks John about his inside experience of wholeness. John describes there is a place beyond thinking where there is an experience of ‘oneness’.  This is a connection to the universe.

Oneness is wholeness. As you elevate about thought and experience oneness, John describes naturally letting go of divisions and experiencing oneness with other people. 

23:00 Distinction between thought and thinking...  We discuss thoughts as formed thoughts that are dead conclusions as compared to thinking which is vital, exploratory and alive.

26:30 John talks about being able to connect at different levels which could be physical, emotional, intellectual or spiritual.  How can we connect at the total picture of life...love, acceptance compassionate...these have an emotional component but they are transcendent energies or consciousness...a person can intentional meditate on an energy like loving-kindness to change the quality of energy in their mind. 

31:30 An energy of conscious that is vital was what Virginia was in touch with and in touch with the life force in others. 

32:00 To be congruent is to be in tune with I AM: Self energy.  John mentions that feeling great about Carl Rogers, but being with Virginia John felt in touch with his own ‘greatness’. He described feeling elevated , at a higher vibration with Virginia; that one could be raising one’s congruence simply by being present.

Virginia was in a different state of consciousness that helped elevate others.

John describes Virginia as being very generous with sharing her energy and shining her light with others.

37:00 Sharing a light. Virginia felt that we are each a light.  

40:00 John expresses the importance of realizing that we are spirit. John talks about acknowledging that we are already whole ; that we are it. 

42:30 Wholeness on different levels : within myself, with others, with the universe. According to John, Wholeness has to do with energy, spirit of a deeper level than merely the physical. John encourages depth of the energy. Tim introduces consciousness. 

45:00 Our consciousness can connect; John points to the possibility that as much as they can connect and that they might be the part of the same whole.

When we have specific thoughts, specific forms of consciousness, we can begin to identify with that and begin to create separations in our mind that then takes away from the perception or the experience of wholeness.

Is the energy of wholeness what allows us to transcend the limitations of our current forms?

Is this what allows us to connect? Letting go of attachments allows for peace.

47:00 Tim shares about the particles of emotions and how that can be held within a larger energy of peace , love and compassion and this is what helps contain and transform the forms. 

49:30 Can we experience our particularized thought and our universality at the same time? 

51:00 When we let go of our rigid attachment to time what becomes available to us? Is time managing us or are we managing time?  We discuss how our expansion of time can help us transcend our rigid ways of using time dictated by expectations, rules, contexts.

56:30 Cosmic wholeness.  This is a term used to remind us that we are more than what we are at the level of perception, feelings, personal identity.

58:10 What happens to consciousness when the body dies? Virginia talked about 4 levels of ‘birthing’.. Each representing a higher level of consciousness and this maybe a movement towards greater wholeness. The whole whole?

1:03 John talks about Virginia’s ability to talk to the masses by offering something at the concrete behavioral change level and all the way to cosmic level. John shares Virginia as a teacher teaching many different aged children in the class and that her work supports the development of consciousness at the level where people are. John experienced Virginia as expressing the many layers simultaneously in her teachings. 

1:08 Tim shares the connection the cosmic wholeness would inform all the various contexts and forms relevant to the audience. Perhaps being in touch with one’s wholeness helps people be in touch with their wholeness because after all it is the same. 

The therapist can lead the process by being in touch with the deeper levels of wholeness, yearnings, that the client may or may not be aware of consciously but experiences. This is an important factors in creating a healing connection/relationship.

1:14 John emphasizes the importance of attuning to the level of consciousness where the client is living and trying to help them elevate them towards a higher level.

1:18  John reflects on the challenge and enjoyment of putting into words the experience and the energy of wholeness.

1:22 What facilitates human growth and development? What are the conclusions that block the movement of life and energy within?