In this wide-ranging conversation, Laura and Tim cover a lot of ground which includes zap experiences, dreams, the iceberg, the transformational process and the value of being connected to the unconscious. Laura personifies the richness of living life with a deep connection to the greater Self and I feel very privileged to know her and to have these conversations about life, suffering, how we might reconcile our suffering by transcending the form of the experience and being connected to the essence of life.
0:00 We begin with Laura leading us in a meditation for grounding and connecting to our Self.
3:00 We clarify what Laura means by Zap, to understand the transformational process and the process of connecting to our deepest Self.
Laura describes it as being connected to the “golden thread” that which transcends our ego and is a greater energy. She shares her own experiences during of time of grief of receiving an experience that came as an audio ‘zap’ that said ‘The form is not the essence’ Laura describest that this message was like a conversation between the large Self that transcends her speaking to the small self within her. This was a zap of clarity and insight for Laura which she has found to be a universal experience that most people have had cross-cultural around the world
7:10 Laura describes it as an experience of something far greater than oneself. Being aware that there is this Self/Life force energy and paying attention is an important aspect of experiencing according to Laura. Tim shares about his own zap experience that occurred during a session fo holotropic breathwork where had visualizations of eyes and the phrase “The eye sees but it is not what it sees” Laura emphasizes that these kinds of experiences are beyond simply insight but are examples of great knowing “Knowing in every cell in your being” These symbols that come from the unconscious are a comfort because they provide a peace and relieving experience that helps us transcend the events and tragedies that are occurring in time and space.
12:55 Tim asks “are zap experiences important to transformational change?” Laura does seem them as important and they can come in many forms. In her model of transformational change, this is our contact with numinous experiences (deeply meaningful symbols, dreams, insights, etc.) that help us see life from a completely different and new perspective. We shift out of being stuck and not being able to see where we are and where we are going and we have new light, new insight and hope that shifts us into a new direction. These profound experiences help us disengage from a stuck perspective pattern and we engage and revivify our whole body and being to be free to choose and to move again.
Laura Dodson’s map of transformational change
16:13 Laura shares her experience with Ian Baker, in Zurich, who was a Jungian analyst and did research at the mental hospital where Carl Jung worked. People had psychotic breaks because of their experimenting with LSD. In the hospital, they were again given LSD, but this time revisited the part of the experience that left them feeling ‘crazy’. They were supported to talk to that experience in a two-chair Gestalt kind of context. To take charge of the experience and to say that they needed the experience to come later in life when they were ready or that they were in charge, not the experience. With this intervention, they were not longer psychotic. Laura emphasizes the theme of ‘taking charge’ as an important element of what is healing.
18:25 We talk about the iceberg metaphor with the Satir model, which includes behavior which is what is seen and above the water line and other elements below the surface such feelings, feelings about feelings, perceptions, expectations to name a few. Tim explains that he likes to use the metaphor of the iceberg to look and explore what is stuck or an unhelpful pattern of coping, but not to be a representation of consciousness as a whole. In other words, the iceberg is a particular form of consciousness at a moment in time and space. Transformation is the melting of the iceberg so our consciousness becomes fluid, flexible and free and we are able to make choices that are from this empowered place.
Transformation is the process where we reclaim the energy that is stuck and use it in a different way that is in line with healthier states of being. This includes experiencing freedom, peace, joy and vitality. By incorporating transformation within the metaphor, ice to water, we more accurately represent the process of transformational change.
21:00 Laura talks about the importance of creativity and choice in Virginia’s work and this exemplifies healthy fluidity. Laura describes the relationship and flow between awareness, communication and action. That with greater awareness we enhance our communication and the quality of our actions enhances.
Laura provides an example of how open awareness about multiple meaning and interpretations then leads to an expansion of possibilities and choice.
24:50 Laura clarifies the difference between communication and action. Communication is the step of simply expressing one’s feelings, perceptions, needs to oneself, perhaps to the person of a therapist which is about finding the voice or expression that fits and then the action being what happens between the person and the people and their relationship they have in the world.
Virginia would encourage people to connect to their feelings deeply and then together finding a form of expression that accurately expresses it and then ask how it was, how it felt to express it. So often people don’t connect to or say the things they deeply want to say and so to nurture people through that process and help them be aware of what is the embodied experience is very important.
27:00 We talk about how people have barriers to communicating their deepest yearnings because they learned in their family rules that sharing such things were forbidden. Transforming the family rules such as “Do not talk about your feelings.” “Don’t be vulnerable or else people will take advantage.” this explicit and implicit rules become barriers to deep connections to Self and others and keep us in defensive coping.
28:30 Tim asks Laura how we can support one another to look at these old patterns in new ways. Laura talks about ‘lending your ego’ This can be done by encouraging, stroking them, letting them know it’s ok to incorporate new beliefs. That person is affirming and supportive of new learning and taking the risk to practice.
33:00 Laura talks about her coping through her husband's death and how meditation was an important tool that allowed her to listen to the greater transcendence Self energy that gives clarity moment by moment of what to do and how to cope. Tim suggested that Laura was trusting the greater Lifeforce, but Laura didn’t see it that way. Instead, she didn’t know what else to do. We talked about how moments of great darkness come to the necessity of connecting to a greater energy (light) that transcends the ego.
37:00 Laura shares some of her dreams at different points in her life to illustrate the connection to our greater life force and how this can be expressed and the impact it can have on our lives. She illustrates through her experience of dreams and her life how they directly impacted her perspective and her movement through life.
39:15 Laura shares a dream that related to George’s death which is a kind of foretelling dream. Laura describes how there are many layers of consciousness and the arena of consciousness that puts us in touch with all things that transcends time and space.
44:30 Laura describes the utility of dream as a moment of being connected or flooded with light that helped her understand what was happening. Laura comments, “In the depth of our unconscious there is a knowing about everything” It gave her a sense of peace and a knowing that we are connected to universal truths. She adds, “I am a part of the universe. I’m not an isolated being in my body. Sometimes I transcend my body and I’m connected to the Universal Truths.”
46:10 Tim asks Laura if the dream is an example of a Zap experience. Laura says Zap are conscious waking experiences. Tim clarifies in wondering with Laura what other significance this dream had on Laura. She feels it deepened her belief in the realms of the unconscious.
Tim asks Laura why is it important to have this connection with the unconscious. Laura affirms that action-oriented therapies have a place. She goes on to describe how Virginia would begin by connecting to various energies systems below, above and amongst that carry wisdom. That there is far more wisdom than what we can be aware of in our minds at a moment in time. To have an appreciation and openness to the unconscious provides many gifts of insight, of energy, of connections. Connection to the unconscious, according to Laura has the effect of “the world gets bigger and the possibilities get bigger.”
50:15 Tim relates this to a trusting of the many complex systems of our bodies that function without our conscious control and appreciating the wisdom that is active within which gives us life (circulatory, digestive, immune, nervous system)
51:15 We explore ways to deepen their relationship to the unconscious. Why value the unconscious realms and how to cultivate that connection. Laura talks about how the connection to the larger plan of the unconscious gives us more information/wisdom from which to make decisions. “We can know much more than we know.”
54:30 Laura introduces the topic of suffering and our judgements about certain feelings states as being bad versus good. Laura shares her perspective that the goodness is in our ability to be with whatever state is with no judgment. The issue of suffering is more a matter of being able to move through it , to breathe through it. And to keep the feeling states fluid and this an important aspect of growth. To go with the states with curiosity and flow with them and see where they take us.
57:46 “There’s a me that’s more than my body” We discuss the importance of being able to explore the question of “Who I am?” Who are you beyond your body? This could be used as a reflective question so see the Self that is beyond the physical form. What is the essence in you?
1:00:00 Laura finishes with a meditation
“Brighter than the brightest sun.
Purer than the whitest snow.
More subtle than either is the Self.
I am that Self. That Self am I
I am that Self, that Self am I .
“Brighter than the brightest sun.
Purer than the whitest snow.
More subtle than either is the Self.
I am that Self. That Self am I
I am that Self, that Self am I .